I think people should be aware of the attempts to confuse the public on the Money Merge Account, as well as the standing of The Jubilee Project, by posting conversations we strive to resolve. The following c”original” conversation can be found HERE.
This was posted here with full permission by the original forum owner.
Jamie,
Go back and read the Kiplinger’s article. It wasn’t offering an “alternative plan,” it was directly saying not to use the UFF product, because it makes no sense to do so. Again, paying $3500 to do something you can already do. ALL debt repayment acceleration plans, every single one of them, are all based on the exact same premise: sending more money to your loan. It’s not “other people’s money” like many agents love to incorrectly say, it’s your own money. The article is saying why pay for something you already have, and pay through the nose. I was wondering what the spin would be. MMA = Prepayments in disguise. That is a indisputable mathematical FACT.
As for the “you don’t work in an educated field”, that wasn’t meant to be a degrading insult, it just is what it is. If I am a janitor, and someone calls me a janitor, it’s not an insult. You have openly admitted to me your group isn’t financial advisors and don’t have the background for it (that is generally required). You need to step back and read the words without emotion and read them for what they say.
Jubilee has most certainly challenged my math. And lost BADLY. Agents complain left and right that I only look at simple scenarios. I gave you a scenario on another board with changing expenses and income, multiple loans, etc. You took the scenario, changed (fixed) the expenses, changed (lowered and fixed) the income, changed the terms of the other loans, and ignored the price of the software, posted your numbers and what you THOUGHT my numbers were, and declared victory. I post how you bankrupted the family given your numbers, posted what the results would be under the original nubmers (MMA coming out some $20,000 behind simple prepayments after you refinanced 0% debt to 7% debt). And amazingly enough, my post is not put up there, and I’m banned. The truth hurts sometimes, I get that, but once and for all, stop lying to the American Public.
It’s all about the truth. The agents openly supress the truth as it would effect sales. If the product is so great, why does it have to be marketed so dishonestly? It should sell itself if it was that great. But no, it’s lies, lies, lies.
Under MMA:
Cash flow changes, average agent claims “no change in cash flow”
Extra payments are made, average agents claims “no extra payments”
Budget SIGNIFICANTLY changes, yet they claim otherwise (heck, Jamie’s “private banker” link says that directly)
Then of course, there’s the claims about the origin of the algorithms (MIT, harvard, Nasa, GE, etc). Saw a term the other day where it was developed by a “mathematical engineer.” Engineers know why that’s funny.
The best so far was recent where an agent claimed homeland security is using it to run their finances, and the NSA is using it because the algorithm is so powerful. Why on Earth would someone claim the Federal Government uses their product for debt reduction? 8 trillion and counting. I couldn’t make this stuff up if I tried.
Anyways, so now a private banker doesn’t grasp the idea of prepayments or leverage? There is NO LEVERAGE in MMA. Leverage is taking $20,000 in cash and buying a $100,000 house using a mortgage. That 1:5 ratio is where the term “leverage” comes from, like being able to lift a 100 lb object with a 20 lb force, using a lever. MMA is using your own money to spend it as your own money. And the $3500 price tag LOWERS the spending power of your money, because the $15-$25 extra interest you have to pay each month relative to prepaying.
And not ALL people are happy with their MMA purchase. We are working with a group that seem to be having a problem getting their refund as they now know the truth and what lies their agents told to them. We will be moving on to Attorneys General if they don’t get their refund. Personally, I hope it goes that route so the widespread fraud (the marketing) can be exposed and dealt with, but if they just get their money back, that will be good enough.
Jaime Buckley’s Response:
Calvin,
I went back and read the Kiplinger’s article. It was offering an “alternative plan,” –yes, it was directly saying not to use the UFF product, because they state can apply the $3500 on your own. However, it was a far cry from your own liberal spin on the Money merge Account being a “joke”, which was my point—your spins on words are SO much fun to read =).
Again, paying $3500 to do something they say you can already do–yet do they? Look at the national market and let the reader judge for themselves. ALL debt repayment acceleration plans, every single one of them, are all based on the exact same premise: sending more money to your loan. Yup, got that, have said that myself over and over. Saying it now. Debt doesn’t go away unless you pay it—what a concept.
[It’s not “other people’s money” like many agents love to incorrectly say, it’s your own money. The article is saying why pay for something you already have, and pay through the nose. I was wondering what the spin would be.]
Calvin, please, oh please tell me you are not this dense. Again, I don’t dispute this—but you do use the banks money in conjunction with your own. When you use a line of credit, who’s money is that? Certainly not yours—you didn’t have it yet Calvin, or it would be called “cash”, not “credit”, or better yet—it would be a “debit” card, not a “credit” card if you are using your own money. Whether you agree with our methods or not, we use the banks money, while we use our own to hold down the average daily balance, but of COURSE our money pays off the debt, and of COURSE it all comes down to OUR MONEY.
Why wouldn’t it?
For crying out loud Calvin, let this be read over and over—The Jubilee Project says THIS ISN’T FAIRY DUST! YOU ARE PAYING YOUR OWN DEBTS WITH YOUR OWN MONEY!! Is that plain enough for you my friend? You can post that on as many sites as you like. That’s never been disputed by Jubilee, though you may hate the way UFirst spells things out. I disagree completely that there is ANY foul play by Corporate…but I will say that too many agents who don’t take the time to learn what we sell, nor have the scruples to talk honestly with potential clients, give the rest of us a bad name and rep from people like you, who group us all in together.
[MMA = Prepayments in disguise. That is a indisputable mathematical FACT.]
Hmmm. Pay more money, pay off a mortgage faster than a traditional payment schedule = prepayment. Don’t see any disguise here. Good call, I agree with you 100%…mathematical fact.
[As for the “you don’t work in an educated field”, that wasn’t meant to be a degrading insult, it just is what it is. If I am a janitor, and someone calls me a janitor, it’s not an insult. You have openly admitted to me your group isn’t financial advisors and don’t have the background for it (that is generally required). You need to step back and read the words without emotion and read them for what they say.]
If I even take this comment at face value, it speaks of a nose turned to the sun, with indirect slander that you are better than myself. Wow. You didn’t call me a janitor, Calvin. You also didn’t qualify what I asked at all. WHAT is a “qualified field” Calvin? Nope, I’m not a financial planner—so what. Are you saying you are a financial adviser? Who are you? What do you do and your background? Clarify please–it would help this conversation.
[Jubilee has most certainly challenged my math. And lost BADLY. Agents complain left and right that I only look at simple scenarios. I gave you a scenario on another board with changing expenses and income, multiple loans, etc. You took the scenario, changed (fixed) the expenses, changed (lowered and fixed) the income, changed the terms of the other loans, and ignored the price of the software, posted your numbers and what you THOUGHT my numbers were, and declared victory. I post how you bankrupted the family given your numbers, posted what the results would be under the original nubmers (MMA coming out some $20,000 behind simple prepayments after you refinanced 0% debt to 7% debt). And amazingly enough, my post is not put up there, and I’m banned.]
How do you lose “BADLY”? I don’t recall any math conversation, let alone being hospitalized by it. I’m just as excited to learn and grow here–even in front of other people, so teach me. Again, proof please. I have no problem saying I am wrong if I am wrong or even to apologize to you Calvin—and if we have talked at some point, put it up here. I said if either of us make a statement, back it with documented proof or shut it.
Go find your proof and please post it with links to the original source. Thank you.
The funny thing is Calvin, you really have no idea who I am, or who Jubilee is. You don’t understand our client base or how we do all we can to bring options to people. You are fighting a group who uses the program personally, and I never would have done this on my own. I didn’t have the drive, I didn’t have the discipline to do it. Sure, you can mock me for this—but I’m here trying to be honest and share what little I do know to assist others. This program has helped me since 2006, and I am in a much better financial situation than I have ever been in my whole adult life.
You fight me so hard, when I’m just a guy, who has benefited from something good and I want to share that with other people, to help them benefit also. So, you don’t like me helping people? …or you don’t like me helping them in a way contrary to your personal beliefs??
You are fighting that simple premise. That looks awfully nasty to me, as I hope it does to readers.
You seem to me SO obsessed with being ‘right’ about something, you just won’t stop.
[The truth hurts sometimes, I get that, but once and for all, stop lying to the American Public.]
The truth never hurts my friend, unless you’re afraid of it, and unless you were lying. No problems here. In fact, one of the specific things I tell any new person I talk to, is that I don’t know all the answers. I do, however know where to find them. If they can deal with that level of honesty, we’ll do fine together.
No secret to me bud. I tell people right up front what my background and why I offer this product. No make believe, no smoke, no mirrors.
You certainly act like you know it all and have all the answers…so show me the foul.
[It’s all about the truth. The agents openly supress the truth as it would effect sales. If the product is so great, why does it have to be marketed so dishonestly? It should sell itself if it was that great. But no, it’s lies, lies, lies.]
Again, you break the rules Calvin. I can’t control other people, and neither can you. What you CAN do, is talk to me, and find a common ground and perhaps we can help people together. Talk to me. Deal with me. No ‘others’ or ‘them’. It’s just you and me. I can only speak for myself.
I don’t suppress anything here, and I don’t see any dishonesty in the marketing either. Do other people/agents use less than honest and/or unsavory tactics and/or information to sell the program? I don’t know the answer to that. I know what I do, what Brad, Ondi and Lee do here in this office, and we tell the truth–laying who we are and what we want to do for others on the table. We tell people that they might not be able to qualify, we tell some that they are upsidown and that this is NOT FAIRY DUST.
Calvin, The Jubilee Project has gone out of it’s way to post information freely and in a more abundant form than any other site on the internet, including UFirst. Why did we do that? To allow people to study freely without having to call us. To allow them time to do their own searching, comparing and decision making, before they pick up the phone—and still we answer questions and give direction without obligation on their part. Where’s the foul? Yet you claim you have such problems with Jubilee specifically.
You keep saying lies, lies, lies, but where are they?
They aren’t coming from me or from Jubilee.
[Under MMA:
Cash flow changes, average agent claims “no change in cash flow”
Extra payments are made, average agents claims “no extra payments”
Budget SIGNIFICANTLY changes, yet they claim otherwise (heck, Jamie’s “private banker” link says that directly)]
First off Calvin, any company, anywhere changes how they market and how they describe their product and/or service as the company grows, learns and gains experience. I find it completely unreasonable to expect any company to get everything perfect right out of the gate without error. Most business would not exist—so they develop while in motion. That’s not a foul…that’s development. I know you want UFirst to state one thing then stand still while you nail their bloods arms to the wall, but it’s just silly.
The funny part about the cash flow changes, especially in Nicks situation, is it’s referring to a POSITIVE effect, not a negative. Try not to play both sides of the fence. It seems you’re not looking for the truth here—which would be the positive improvement—but rather a situation to just make trouble. We strive very hard to under promise and over deliver. From what I gather, thats a good motto to live by, don’t you think?
His college buddy told him, and rightly so, that this program could be done without ‘significantly adjusting our household budget’.
[Then of course, there’s the claims about the origin of the algorithms (MIT, harvard, Nasa, GE, etc). Saw a term the other day where it was developed by a “mathematical engineer.” Engineers know why that’s funny.
The best so far was recent where an agent claimed homeland security is using it to run their finances, and the NSA is using it because the algorithm is so powerful. Why on Earth would someone claim the Federal Government uses their product for debt reduction? 8 trillion and counting. I couldn’t make this stuff up if I tried.]
You know what my own personal opinion of the origin is?
Who gives a crap.
Really. What difference does it make, unless it was developed by a autistic 4 year old from Branston Iowa…cause that would make a great story to tell.
To me it’s just like Martial Arts: a system doesn’t work any better (or worse) because it was created by a one-eyed, one-armed monk in the mountain shrines of China. It works or it doesn’t.
Now, Jubilee has 4 men who says it works, if no one else said so–and they own it. Now we have a client who has posted his information, and shows it works—vs—you who keep shouting it doesn’t work, but you don’t use it. Hey, you could be a great mechanic…doesn’t automatically mean you know how to drive.
[Anyways, so now a private banker doesn’t grasp the idea of prepayments or leverage? There is NO LEVERAGE in MMA. Leverage is taking $20,000 in cash and buying a $100,000 house using a mortgage. That 1:5 ratio is where the term “leverage” comes from, like being able to lift a 100 lb object with a 20 lb force, using a lever. MMA is using your own money to spend it as your own money. And the $3500 price tag LOWERS the spending power of your money, because the $15-$25 extra interest you have to pay each month relative to prepaying.]
So now you simply push aside this ’educated field’ because it doesn’t work with what you’re screaming about? This client posts his own HELOC statement, SHOWING THE MATH, AND DOCUMENTING HIS RESULTS…and yet you don’t concede anything. He’s all excited and is getting results you tell us won’t happen, but theres the math—and yet you still kick and fight??
Amazing.
So the ‘educated field’ doesn’t really matter.
What you mean is—we are not Calvin, and Calvin is always right??
Double wow.
Well, ok.
For those who want a full and accurate account from a client who has shared his actual experience, not a ‘theory’, simply visit: http://www.jubileesolutions.com/?p=19
[And not ALL people are happy with their MMA purchase. We are working with a group that seem to be having a problem getting their refund as they now know the truth and what lies their agents told to them. We will be moving on to Attorneys General if they don’t get their refund. Personally, I hope it goes that route so the widespread fraud (the marketing) can be exposed and dealt with, but if they just get their money back, that will be good enough.]
Again Calvin, good story. Please provide proof. I have no problem believing that not everyone is happy with their Money Merge Account—I don’t live on the Good Ship Lollipop here…but at the same time, I also know not everyone loves their Chevy, Ford, Microwave, Dress, Slacks or Microsoft Vista system.
So the great evil now, is we don’t have 100% perfect satisfaction at all times, in all places, with all people? Ok, we’re guilty. Lock me up—I’m so ashamed I cannot please everyone, I have seen the light and the errors of my ways.
Come on. Show me your works history and lets see you do better.
You keep shouting lies and ‘people knowing the truth’…but show me Calvin, don’t tell me. Show me. I would be careful with your accusations by simply stating that it is ‘your opinion’ that it’s fraud. I would hate to have something legally happen to you.
Who would I have left to talk to online?
The Jubilee Project
UFirst Executive Branch Managers #827180
owners@thejubileeproject.com
1-801-701-6650 (Main)
1-801-208-9492 (Cells)
Join Jubilee NOW!